{"id":211018,"date":"2019-11-04T00:00:56","date_gmt":"2019-11-04T05:00:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/?page_id=211018"},"modified":"2023-12-23T17:13:04","modified_gmt":"2023-12-23T22:13:04","slug":"episode-5-steal-steel","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 5 &#8211; Steal Steel"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"cs-content\" class=\"cs-content\"><div class=\"x-section e211018-e1 m4itm-0\"><div class=\"x-container e211018-e2 m4itm-1\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-1 e211018-e3 m4itm-3\"><div class=\"cs-content x-global-block x-global-block-213150 e211018-e4\"><div class=\"x-section e213150-e2 m4kgu-0\"><div class=\"x-row e213150-e3 m4kgu-1 m4kgu-2\"><div class=\"x-row-inner\"><div class=\"x-col e213150-e4 m4kgu-3\"><div class=\"x-text x-content e213150-e5 m4kgu-4 m4kgu-5\"><link href=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/branding\/fontawesome\/css\/all.css\" rel=\"stylesheet\">\n<div id=\"mistybackground\">\n<div id=\"UnderwriterCredit\"> Sponsored in part by<a href=\"https:\/\/boldbeancoffee.com\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" id=\"UnderwriterLogo\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/BoldBeanCoffeeRoasters.svg\"\/><\/a><\/div>\n  <img decoding=\"async\" class=\"headerlogo\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/oddball_header_logo.png\" \/>\n  <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\"><img decoding=\"async\" id=\"WJCTWhiteShadowLogo\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/WJCTLogoWhiteWithShadow.png\" \/><\/a>\n  <img decoding=\"async\" class=\"midgroundferns left\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/midgroundferns_left.png\" \/>\n  <img decoding=\"async\" class=\"midgroundferns right\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/midgroundferns_right.png\" \/>\n  <div id=\"murkyundergrowth\"><\/div>\n  <ul id=\"topmenu\">\n    <li><a href=\"#howtolisten\">How&nbsp;to&nbsp;Listen<\/a><\/li>\n        <li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.org\/support?utm_source=oddballpodcast.com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=donate_link\">Donate<\/a><\/li>\n    <li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/contact\/\">Contact<\/a><\/li>\n  <\/ul>\n  <div id=\"bottommenu\">\n    <img decoding=\"async\" class=\"foregroundferns left\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/foregroundferns_left.png\" \/>\n    <img decoding=\"async\" class=\"foregroundferns right\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/foregroundferns_right.png\" \/>\n      <ul id=\"navmenu\">\n        <li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/\">Home<\/a><\/li>\n        <li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episodes\/\">Episodes<\/a><\/li>\n        <li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/about\/\">About<\/a><\/li>\n        <li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/extras\/\">Extras<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t\t\t<li><a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.org\/support?utm_source=oddballpodcast.com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=donate_link\">Support<\/a><\/li>\n      <\/ul>\n    <\/div>\n  <\/div>\n  <\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-text x-content e213150-e6 m4kgu-5 m4kgu-6\"><!-- Mobile Navigation Menu -->\n<div class=\"mobilemenu\">\n  <a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/\" class=\"active\">Home<\/a>\n  <div id=\"dropdown\">\n    <a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episodes\">Episodes<\/a>\n    <a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/about\">About<\/a>\n    <a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/extras\">Extras<\/a>\n    <a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/shop\" target=\"_blank\">Shop<\/a>\n    <a href=\"#howtolisten\" class=\"submenu\">How To Listen<\/a>\n    <a href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/contact\" class=\"submenu\">Contact<\/a>\n  <\/div>\n  <a href=\"javascript:void(0);\" class=\"icon\" onclick=\"showdropdown()\">\n    <i class=\"fa fa-bars\"><\/i>\n  <\/a>\n<\/div>\n\n<!-- End of Mobile Navigation Menu -->\n\n<script>\nfunction showdropdown() {\n  var x = document.getElementById(\"dropdown\");\n  if (x.style.display === \"block\") {\n    x.style.display = \"none\";\n  } else {\n    x.style.display = \"block\";\n  }\n}\n<\/script><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-section e211018-e5 m4itm-0\"><div class=\"x-container e211018-e6 m4itm-1 m4itm-2\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-1 e211018-e7 m4itm-3\"><div class=\"cs-content x-global-block x-global-block-212872 e211018-e8\"><div class=\"x-section e212872-e2 m4k94-0\"><div class=\"x-container max width e212872-e3 m4k94-1 m4k94-2\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-2-3 e212872-e4 m4k94-3 m4k94-4\"><div class=\"x-text x-text-headline e212872-e5 m4k94-6\"><div class=\"x-text-content\"><div class=\"x-text-content-text\"><h2 class=\"x-text-content-text-primary\"><a id=\"episode5\"><\/a>Episode 5:<\/h2><h4 class=\"x-text-content-text-subheadline\">Steal Steel<\/h4><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-audio x-audio-player e212872-e6 m4k94-7 m4k94-8\" data-x-element-mejs=\"\"><audio class=\"x-mejs\" preload=\"metadata\"><source src=\"https:\/\/cpa.ds.npr.org\/wjct\/audio\/2019\/10\/fswxABK6Q1v3GanV.mp3\" type=\"audio\/mpeg\"><\/audio><\/div><div class=\"x-text x-content e212872-e7 m4k94-9 m4k94-a\"><p>Lindsey looks into where the sphere really is. And will she ever get to talk to Gerri?<\/p><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-3 e212872-e8 m4k94-3 m4k94-4\"><div class=\"x-content-area e212872-e9 m4k94-c\"><audio id=\"episode5\" src=\"EPISODE5\"> <\/audio>\n<div class=\"obplaysquare episode5\"><a id=\"ep5player\" title=\"Click to play\">&nbsp;<\/a>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><hr class=\"x-line e212872-e10 m4k94-d m4k94-e\"><\/hr><div class=\"x-text x-content e212872-e11 m4k94-a m4k94-b\"><p class=\"aahide\"><a href=\"#howtolisten\"><i class=\"fas fa-rss\"><\/i> Subscribe<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"episodedownload\" href=\"https:\/\/cpa.ds.npr.org\/wjct\/audio\/2019\/10\/fswxABK6Q1v3GanV.mp3\"><i class=\"fas fa-arrow-down\"><\/i> Download<\/a><\/p>\n<p id=\"showtranscript5\" style=\"cursor: pointer;\"><i class=\"fas fa-align-left\"><\/i> Transcript<\/p>\n<p class=\"aahide\"><a class=\"sharelink\" href=\"#share\"><i class=\"fas fa-share-alt\"><\/i> Share<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-container max width e212872-e12 m4k94-1\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-1 e212872-e13 m4k94-3 m4k94-5\"><hr class=\"x-line e212872-e14 m4k94-d m4k94-f\"><\/hr><div class=\"x-acc e212872-e15 m4k94-g\" id=\"x-acc-e212872-e15\"><div class=\"e212872-e16 x-acc-item\"><button id=\"tab-e212872-e16\" class=\"x-acc-header\" role=\"button\" type=\"button\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"panel-e212872-e16\" data-x-toggle=\"collapse\" data-x-toggleable=\"e212872-e16\"><span class=\"x-acc-header-content\"><span class=\"x-acc-header-indicator\">&#x25b8;<\/span><span class=\"x-acc-header-text\"><h2>Transcript:<\/h2>\n<p style=\"text-transform: uppercase;\">Click to expand<\/p><\/span><\/span><\/button><div id=\"panel-e212872-e16\" role=\"region\" aria-hidden=\"true\" aria-labelledby=\"tab-e212872-e16\" data-x-toggleable=\"e212872-e16\" data-x-toggle-collapse=\"1\" class=\"x-collapsed\"><div class=\"x-acc-content\"><p><strong>Note:<\/strong>\u00a0<em>Odd Ball<\/em>\u00a0is produced and designed to be heard, not read. We highly recommend listening to the audio. The audio contains tone and emotion that are not included in the transcript. Transcripts are created using speech recognition software and human transcribers, but it may contain errors. Please verify with the audio before using any quotes in print.<\/p>\n<p><em>Odd Ball<\/em> is sponsored by Bold Bean Coffee Roasters. While this podcast might be a mystery, Bold Bean\u2019s coffee isn\u2019t. Ethically sourced bags of beans are roasted to highlight their origin characteristics and natural sweetness, so when you order that latte, you\u2019re supporting transparency and quality at every step of the coffee chain. Bold Bean: sourcing, roasting, brewing and serving outstanding coffee.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>From WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville this is Episode 5, the season finale of <em>Odd Ball<\/em>. I\u2019m Lindsey Kilbride.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[clips from previous episodes]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe don\u2019t know what else is inside of it. Yeah it could be anything.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cSo you did bring up the fact that I want to talk to her.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cI did. She was like, you know, Nan, I just don't feel comfortable really sharing this with anyone.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat makes it sound like he was covering. Like there was something about it he didn\u2019t want to talk about.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Dick Burnett:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cThe ball went back and forth. They weren\u2019t sure they got the right ball back.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cDid it move of its own accord?\u201d Hynek: \u201cI think we have concluded that largely is a little bit of wishful thinking.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>One of the main reasons the Betz sphere caught so much interest in the 70s is because a lot of people, including Gerri Betz herself, speculated the ball might be from outer space. So as I near the end of my own inquiry into this mystery, I\u2019d really like to know for sure: Is that even possible?<\/p>\n<p>A lot of people have said the ball is definitely made on Earth because it\u2019s stainless steel. Remember? Like Brian Dunning from the Skeptoid podcast:<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Brian Dunning:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cThat\u2019s a common industrial steel and it\u2019s probably not likely to be something that aliens would use. So we can be pretty sure metallurgically that it\u2019s something from some industrial plant right here on Earth.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>But can we? The week the ball started making headlines, Gerri Betz asked two different news reporters: \u201cWho could say what\u2019s on another planet?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And I have no idea. That\u2019s why I brought back FSU geochemistry Professor Munir Humayun.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Munir Humayun:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cMy expertise is in the study of extraterrestrial materials, particularly in metals from extraterrestrial materials and their analysis.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cSo what do we know about what materials exist outside of Earth?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Munir Humayun:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cWell, if you're talking just natural materials, and you're not asking what have extraterrestrial civilizations come up with, then stainless steel is a very anthropogenic product, you do not find stainless steel falling from natural materials. The materials we find in space, including iron meteorites, have very distinct compositions and we can recognize them rather easily from the man-made products. Stainless Steel 431 is a very specific chemical composition and a very specific textural association. It would be remarkable if another civilization made a stainless steel that\u2019s exactly like 431.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Say that, that did happen. What would have happened to the sphere if it would have dropped into Earth?<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Munir Humayun:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cLet's presume that for argument's sake, a spacecraft did not visit Earth and drop the sphere inadvertently, like a little space alien playing with our ball and left it behind on Earth. If it were roaming around in space, regardless of how it got there, it would be exposed to galactic cosmic rays. And so it would have a certain amount of radioactivity in it, which would have been detectable, if they had measured radioactivity very sensitively.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Gerri told reporters the Navy found the ball was NOT radioactive and NOT explosive.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>But what about that scientist\u2019s alleged comments that the little balls inside the sphere are made out of elements heavier than another known to science.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Humayun\u2019s assessment?<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Munir Humayun:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cUnlikely to be an element heavier than any known to humans, because a heavier metal would both increase the density beyond what we measure. And it would also be radioactive, incredibly radioactive. And so if there was a significant like a little sphere of some elements like Californium, or or any other transuranic, you would pick that up. You'd pick it up in the x-ray because it would come out really bright and shiny compared to the steel. And you would pick it up in the gamma rays, which probably was what they measured when they were looking for radioactivity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>So if Navy did test for radioactivity and didn\u2019t find anything, like the article said, that pretty much rules out Professor James Harder\u2019s alleged comments that the ball contained elements heavier than anything found on Earth...BUT it doesn\u2019t rule out the little balls inside were made of a different material than the outer shell.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Why does that matter?\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The Navy\u2019s explanation is the balls inside, they\u2019re just little fragments of the shell that fell in during manufacturing. So maybe it was intentionally placed there for a purpose but maybe something else got in there. I don\u2019t know. Of course, debris doesn\u2019t make a ball vibrate and roll around weird. Gerri also said that it was almost like she could hear the little balls inside pinging around by themselves. Like something more was going on in there. But none of the scientists I spoke with had any theories.<\/p>\n<p>Professor Humayun said nowadays there are beams that would be able to collect the atomic composition of the inside of the sphere. The theory he finds most compelling:\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Munir Humayun:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cSomebody mentioned that this looked exactly like a pulp mill ball.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>NOO, not him too. Another one joins the paper plant theory club.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s been difficult to get scientists to participate in interviews about this because a lot of it is speculative.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have the official Navy report, (despite many many public records requests to governmental departs and archival departments. No one has been able to find anything.) If anyone out there listening does have it, I\u2019d love to see it.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>One materials engineer who agreed to answer my questions by email says cutting the ball open would have pretty much answered all these questions.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The Navy had asked to cut it open, and Professor J. Allen Hynek talked about it cutting it open during that radio interview after he returned from the New Orleans National Enquirer panel.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[J. Allen Hynek]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cOf course we could cut the thing open and that would solve the whole thing probably.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Radio host:]<\/strong><br \/>\"But it would ruin it for someone else.\" <\/p>\n<p><strong>[J. Allen Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cIt would, and it\u2019s such a nice ball.\u201d]\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>But all signs point to, the ball really wasn\u2019t anything special. Or we can\u2019t prove it was.<\/p>\n<p>I think UFO expert Jerry Clark said it best when he called the ball a blip in history, nothing more.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cIf it had really been with Harder says it was, it certainly would have made an impression and it would be something like proof of some kind of, you know, otherworldly visitations. This clearly wasn't that, whatever it was.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>This is not what I want to hear. I ask Clark, what about all the weird allegations? The Navy\u2019s trying to take the sphere back. Why would they want it if it wasn\u2019t special? Terry\u2019s being flown back to Florida and separated from the ball because his mom was supposedly sick, only to find out that was made up? What about its rolling uphill? What about all the witnesses who said the ball acted weird?<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cThat's interesting. But you know, what are you going to do with that? You hear these stories, and there are stories where people claim that someone took their evidence. And if these stories are true in any way, they certainly have had no measurable influence on any observable government UFO policy.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>He believes if the government really had all this proof, or a collection of UFOs, they\u2019d be reverse engineered and we\u2019d have a lot of new technologies we don\u2019t have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cThese things are all taking place on the margins of society, and to the people who experienced them there, they may be life changing. I mean, they're extremely strange and upsetting and challenging. But they don't affect history. Life goes on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Music]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>After talking to Jerry Clark and all these scientists, I\u2019d adopted this attitude too. And this is my mind set as I go into my next chat with Nan, the magazine editor who profiled Gerri Betz a couple years ago. She\u2019s been talking with Gerri and said she\u2019d ask her AGAIN on my behalf if there\u2019s any way she\u2019d consider talking for this podcast.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>This is Gerri\u2019s most recent email to Nan:<\/p>\n<quote>\n<p>Dear Nan,\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>We are out of town and don\u2019t expect to be home anytime soon. I wish you and your family the best.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Sincerely, Gerri\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/quote>\n<p>Nan says she feels like Gerri\u2019s blowing her off. It does sound like that. So when I talked to Nan she was racking her brain, thinking, \u2018Did I say something wrong?\u2019 \u2018Do something to upset her?\u2019 and she even followed up with an apology to Gerri.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cI took that, for what it seemed to be like this, you know, I'm just not really interested in engaging. I don't, I don't blame her. I really, I want to respect her privacy, and in I way I feel like her last email is definitely her trying to establish a boundary from our previous exchanges. And so, yeah, just wanted to kind of let it sit a little while and then mull it. I do, I want to. But I also want to speak with her again.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYeah, no, it's a bummer for sure.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>NK: \u201cI know. I feel like I blew it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cNo!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>NK: :I feel like I totally blew it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>I called Nan on her cell instead of having her swing by the studio for better-quality sound because I thought this would be the extent of the conversation, just a little check-in...But we end up talking for 45 minutes.<\/p>\n<p>I fill her in about a lot of my research and conversations, like with Leo Sprinkle, the scientist on the UFO panel who doesn\u2019t remember the sphere at all.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>That sounds kind of like pleading the fifth or something.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>And the conversation I had with the UFO expert Jerry Clark, where he basically says no one in the UFO community cared about this ball. It was nothing special. Nan says, yeah, but the government does all kinds of secret stuff. And think about who Gerri is.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cThere was no, like, need for her to kind of create this fiction around this object, to sensationalize something. I personally think that the Betz family\u00a0\u2014 something happened during that time period that scared the Betz family into silence.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>And just like that, I\u2019m back again. Not sure what to believe, remembering Nan\u2019s conversations with Gerri and all these weird things that happened with the ball, some I haven\u2019t even shared with you yet.<\/p>\n<p>Nan was the second person who has a direct relationship with Gerri to tell me Allen Hynek, from the UFO panel, came to Gerri\u2019s home to examine the ball.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cHynek reached out. He wanted them to come to Chicago and she said, \u2018No, if you want to see this sphere, you're gonna have to come to us.\u2019 So he came and she said that he was just a delightful person. They enjoyed their time together. He was only there for a couple days. He asked if he could bring the sphere into his bedroom overnight, and she didn't really see any harm in that. She trusted him. He was a government scientist with a very staunch reputation. I think Gerri just wanted to know what it was. That was her whole mission behind all of this, was just to find out what this thing was, so he spent the night with it and then he left the next day. She said that he came carrying an old-fashioned doctors bag. Like one of those large leather sacks. I think she just assumed it was full of tools or clothes or whatever. Then he left.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Some time after this, Nan says Gerri told her she took the ball to be x-rayed again because the ball had stopped rolling around and vibrating.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cI think she felt like there was something different about it and she wanted to be sure, and she was really surprised when the x-rays came back and they were different from the original ones that she had done prior to Dr. Hynek coming.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cDid she say what was different about them?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cShe did. She said that they were seams. There were actual seems on the sphere where in the original x-rays there were no seams of the\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cLike on the inside?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cShe didn't specifically say.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cBut it looked different.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYeah.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>I found an article in which Gerri actually addresses this. The date is cut off, but it\u2019s definitely later on. She explains a lot of people are after the ball. She had to have a guy ordered off her property. Some firm offered her 750-grand for the ball. Then she says she had the ball x-rayed again and these did not match the Navy\u2019s x-rays. The Betz sphere has three little balls inside. Two look perfectly round. And the third is bigger and not so round \u00a0\u2014 there\u2019s a little line coming from it, which she calls an antenna. She says that ball was now pulverized. \u201cI can\u2019t even prove now it\u2019s the same one we originally had,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cShe was just furious. Then she...I think that anger changed to kind of the revelation that whatever the sphere was, the government did not want her to find out and not want her to know, and she decided, in that moment, to burn those x-rays. She did not feel comfortable with any sort of proof of that information.\u201d<\/p>\n[Music]\n<p>Nan says the family knows where the ball is, it\u2019s still around.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Nan Kavanaugh:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cThey still have the ball that she feels like is not the ball.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>But she doesn\u2019t know WHO has it. Someone close to Gerri, who asked to remain anonymous, tells me, today she isn\u2019t sure if it was swapped out or tampered with it...but the ball was never the same after all these investigators had their hands on it.<\/p>\n<p>So we don\u2019t have proof Hynek took the ball or tampered with it, and I want that to be clear. But let\u2019s talk about how likely that could have been. Because if it\u2019s true, it would make more sense as to why it seemed like so many people were after it. Because maybe it was something they weren\u2019t supposed to have.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s also this weird new detail: One of Hynek\u2019s son\u2019s recently\u00a0\u2014 as in this year \u00a0\u2014 was quoted in his hometown newspaper saying, growing up, his family had a metal ball from a Florida UFO case.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Music]\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Quick refresh: Hynek was contracted by the Air Force to figure out explanations for UFO sightings. After his work with the government he founded the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) near where he lived in Evanston, Illinois. It\u2019s still around today and it\u2019s where I got that old radio interview tape.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Jerry Clark, the UFO expert, was on the center\u2019s board. Very small world, this UFO community.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cWhat was Hynek like?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cOh, he was a wonderful man. He always had a twinkle in his eye and pipe in his mouth and he was just fun. He was extremely smart and he was just sort of overwhelmed every living moment with, you know, scientific curiosity.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cAnd so you said you knew him fairly well. How do you define that? I guess I'm just trying to gauge how much time you spent with him.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cOh, man. I don't know. Maybe see him once every week or two. Sometimes, we were at his...by we, I mean, I and fellow CUFOCs officers or sometimes just myself at his house in\u00a0 Evanston, and I know his wife, and, I don't know, how do you know somebody, you know? He was a colleague, you know, a friendly colleague, and we were bonded. Same organization, the same goals.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>I want to hear what Clark thinks about these rumors, that the sphere was different after Hynek left the Betzes or sometime around the National Enquirer UFO conference in New Orleans. I\u2019ve heard and read both. And that Hynek supposedly had a similar ball in his home.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cThe sphere apparently wasn't the same afterward. So they didn't know if he tampered with it or switched it out. So do you know if he ever would, you know, swipe artifacts that he was interested in or try to recreate them or anything like that?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cWell, let me answer it this way. Because I'm trying to just try to work this out of my memory. One thing is Allen really wanted was validation. That he really hoped before he died, that he would have the proof that UFOs exist. And this was really important to him, because he had taken a real hit from his colleagues. He had been a prominent and respected\u00a0 astronomer till he went to the dark side. And so it was very important for Allen to find validation. So he wasn't above quietly grabbing a document of the official files, which is going to be burned or otherwise discarded, that he thought, this is, you know\u00a0\u2014 I don't mean highly classified documents. Allen had a high security classification and he took it very seriously\u00a0\u2014 but there was a lot of stuff that was...would have been interesting to somebody researching UFOs that, to the people around Allen, when he was working in his official capacity, just junk. And if there was a sphere in the house\u00a0\u2014 which I never saw. And I was in that house on a number of occasions, and was never mentioned to me. And I never saw anything like that\u00a0\u2014 but it would have been in the context of just picking up something that otherwise would have been discarded. He didn't even necessarily have to think that it was important in the context of documenting the existence of UFOs.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cDo you think that if he did think that there was something to the sphere that you would have known that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jerry Clark:]<\/strong><br \/>:Yes, I think it would have been known to us at CUFOs, as an important item.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><br \/><br \/><\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>He said the center published a scientific journal and he believes if Hynek had the sphere, it would have been handed over to their scientists, and that never happened.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I reached out the center myself and heard back from its current director\u2026 He said \u201cThe Betz sphere was ultimately found not to be anything alien or paranormal\u201d and he attached the NICAP report we dived into last episode: which concludes: the thing is probably from the paper mill.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I also reached out to a woman named Jennie Ziedman, one of Hynek\u2019s old colleagues. She emailed me that she\u2019s not familiar with the ball I described either.<\/p>\n<p>So what was Hynek\u2019s son talking about, growing up with a metal sphere from A FLORIDA UFO CASE?\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cWell here\u2019s what I know about that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>After the break.<\/p>\n<p><em>Odd Ball<\/em> is made possible by supporters of WJCT Public Media, with additional support from Bold Bean Coffee Roasters, based in Jacksonville, Florida.\u00a0 It started as a father and son roasting coffee in their garage about a decade ago, and now it\u2019s a company that works directly with farmers and more than 140 wholesale partners, and it has several cafes where you can a latte and delicious food to go with it...that\u2019s where Adam Burnett, the bakery manager comes in.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Adam:]<\/strong><br \/> It's just food that people want to eat. That's, that like, comfortable, really good from scratch, baked goods.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Like his favorite, croissants, which take three-and-a-half days to make.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Adam:]<\/strong>[In the kitchen:] \u201cThat's where I roll all the croissants in all the butter. We do that first thing in the morning. [door opening] I bring the croissants up here to proof because this warm weather really pops up real good up here so yeah, This is a full breakfast croissant. It's got ham, eggs, bacon, cheese, herbs in it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cAnd what day are these on?\u201d Adam: \u201cThese are day three. So these will get baked here in several hours, once they're done proofing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Taste one for yourself at one of Bold Bean\u2019s Jacksonville coffee shops. And for a limited time, you can also pick up a bag of a special Odd Ball coffee, blended just for this podcast. Or order the coffee online, along with a Bold Bean tote bag and mug. Shop all the merch at oddballpodcast.com, where you can also make a donation to WJCT, so we can keep making podcasts like this one.<\/p>\n<p><em>What It\u2019s Like<\/em> promo:<br \/> <strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>If you like stories about regular people going through extraordinary circumstances\u00a0\u2014 and I assume you do if you\u2019re listening to <em>Odd Ball<\/em>\u00a0\u2014 you might also want to check out another WJCT podcast that I\u2019m really proud of, called \u201cWhat It\u2019s Like.\u201d Each of the 8 episodes is basically a conversation between two people who went through something intense, together. <em>What It\u2019s Like<\/em> is available wherever you get your podcasts. It\u2019s the one with the purple background and white table and chairs on the logo.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[music fades out]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Paul Hynek is an advisor on the TV show Project Blue Book, which is about his dad.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[TV show trailer:]<\/strong><br \/> A family reported seeing something falling from the sky. \u201cI\u2019ll be down there right away.\u201d \u201cI need you to meet someone first.\u201d \u201cThe name\u2019s Dr. Allen Hynek.\u201d \u201cYou want me to investigate flying saucers?\u201d \u201cI want you to help me prove to the public the truth: they don\u2019t exist.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>He was recently quoted in an article about his role on the TV show and what it was like growing up with a dad really into UFOs. But this is the very last quote in the story: \u201cI found out recently that a big silver sphere we had was from some famous UFO case in Florida. We would just kick it around on the floor because we didn\u2019t know what it was.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Whaaat? So I get him on the phone and rather than lead with this alleged ball theft, I ask him, what was your dad like?\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cPeople talk about him, you know, changing from being a skeptic to a believer. I don't think believer\u2019s really a good word for a scientist. I think he became an acceptor. That he accepted that there was a phenomena. He felt very strongly that you should keep your eyes open or your mind open when confronted with what may be a new phenomena, but then also to not close your mind too quickly, just availing yourself of the best answer that you have handy. Because the answer may be more difficult, and you need to be comfortable with questions that you can't answer, which is a large part of science.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHe became convinced within a few years that there was something going on, because he and the Air Force couldn't explain all these cases, and if you look at Project Blue Book's official stats of some 12,000 cases that they investigated, and over 700 they couldn't explain. And this is with a clear mandate, as we see in the show, to explain them all away. And yet, they still couldn't.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cIt seemed your Dad maybe disagreed with some of their public conclusions about the cases. Can you talk at all about that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cMy father felt that the Air Force\u2019s job isn't science, it's national security. But while he was there, yes, there was friction and frustration.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cHe said Project Blue Book, turned into more of public relations exercise to tamp down hysteria.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cBut he felt that his ability to help collect the information and guide how it\u2019s collected and recorded was very valuable for his later analysis and discussion.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>OK, OK, I won\u2019t keep you waiting any more. What about this Florida ball in his house?<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cWell, here's what I know about that. I spoke on a panel for [the] History [Channel] at Alien Con in Pasadena last year in the summer, and a woman came up to me after the panel and showed me a newspaper clipping with a picture of a sphere and said, \"Do you know anything about this case?\u2019 And I said, \u2018I haven't heard about this case. But we had a big metallic sphere in our basement for years. And my brother and I had no idea where it came from, and we would just sort of kick it around the floor. I mean, it was like it was larger than a basketball, it was just big metallic sphere and we had no idea where it came from.\u2019 And so I mentioned this to the woman, and then 10 minutes later after Googling on her phone, she came back and she said, \u2018I think your father took possession of that sphere.\u2019 So I can't confirm or deny if the sphere we saw was from that case, but I do know that woman was very excited and that we had a sphere in our house.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cAnd your dad didn't say where it was from ever?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cNo because we had so many things at our house that it just sort of became normal for us. You know, we had this artistic rendering of Travis Walton being zapped by UFOs on the wall in our laundry room.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cAs you do.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYeah, as one does. And Christmas ornaments that were UFOs on the tree, and things like that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cWow. Yeah. So I read that you said that in a recent article, and there are comments that were like, \"Maybe it's the Betz sphere,\" and then I also know that in the show, there's a plot point where your dad takes one of the artifacts, and I was like, is that based on a real occurrence?<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYes. Are you insinuating, Lindsay, that my father is some kind of UFO kleptomaniac?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cNot necessarily.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>But yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cBut that is...so there's a cult following around the sphere, right? And then once that, quote came out in the article, people are like, you know, maybe the sphere was switched out or maybe has it or maybe he made a duplicate of it. And so everyone's sort of inquiring, you know, what's going on with it?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cOh, well, you know, I can imagine a situation where if that was the case, let's just entertain the sort of, the kind of fun aspect of that. If this was that sphere, then I think my father probably did a good job not telling his gabby teenage sons where it came from.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>I didn\u2019t have Paul on the phone for long, so I followed-up with some emails. I ask him where that basement ball is today. He has no idea. I ask about the ball\u2019s weight. The Betz sphere was more than 20 lbs. Paul said his dad\u2019s sphere: really heavy. But he estimates his ball was a little bigger than a basketball. The Betz sphere would have actually been a little smaller, not by much. He doesn\u2019t remember a triangular chip out of the side.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Then Paul reaches out to his brother, who reminds him their ball seemed hollow and made some kind of jingly noises when they rolled it...well, that sounds pretty familiar ... and they remembered there was some kind of mark on the outside. He described it as a manufacturing scar, \u201ca seal where the molten metal was poured into a mold, perhaps,\u201d he wrote.\u00a0 But he followed up saying, \u201cIf you heard my dad say it wasn\u2019t out of this world in an interview. I\u2019d go with that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m not ready to just \u201cgo with that.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>So I reach out to one of Hynek\u2019s other sons. He says if he remembers correctly, it was an industrial ball bearing, and his dad didn\u2019t bring it home, a different brother did. He confirmed it was hollow and when you rolled it, something else moved around inside. Then he tells me, \u201cI vaguely remember the ball ending up with one of my friends somehow.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then I asked if he\u2019d mind following up with his brother, the one who maybe brought a giant ball bearing home, because if Hynek definitely didn\u2019t bring this ball home, that\u2019s a pretty big breakthrough. More than a month later, I get a reply.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cFinally got a hold of Joel (that\u2019s the other brother). It turns out he is not the one that brought the sphere back home. He seems to remember that it was our dad who brought it home. Still a bit of a mystery. I also seem to remember that at one time there were actually two spheres, although Joel doesn\u2019t seem to remember the second. We both agree that it was a long time ago.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I ask if he knows where the ball is today and he says no, he thinks an old friend may have taken it, but the person he\u2019d want to ask has passed away.\u00a0<\/p>\n[music swells and fades]\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>After all these interviews...I still haven\u2019t talked to Gerri, and I\u2019ve honestly been panicking because I don\u2019t know if I can tell this story without her \u2014 or if I even want to. I really only wanted to do this project under that assumption. That\u2019s the only way to do it right, right?<\/p>\n<p>My coworker who works in a totally different department knew I was having trouble getting in touch with somebody, so a couple days later he dropped off some stationary on my desk and said \u201ctry writing her a letter.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So I did\u2026 and I quickly realize I can\u2019t remember the last time I\u2019ve handwritten someone a letter. I have to Google what a cursive capital G looks like. Ultimately, decided against cursive if you\u2019re wondering. This is what I write:\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI\u2019m reaching out because over the past year I\u2019ve been working on a podcast about the sphere your family found in 1974\u2026\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I start with: I know your family has chosen not to discuss this.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt\u2019s been difficult to figure out what to write to you because I don\u2019t know the best way to show you my intentions are not to sensationalize, nor to exploit. Through my research I\u2019ve interviewed two of Dr. Hynek\u2019s sons about this sphere they had in their house growing up.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I try to show her this is really well-researched.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBut I don\u2019t only care about the ball. For me, that\u2019s a small piece of this story. From the very beginning I\u2019ve admired you and thought you were incredible. I want listeners to understand that too. You know, there\u2019s an entire \u2018Gerri Betz\u2019 folder of articles in The Florida Times-Union library. The focus of the folder isn\u2019t the ball, it\u2019s your work in the community: pre-sphere discovery. Stories about you standing up to City Council\u2026\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>You know all this already.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI\u2019m 100 percent willing to work with you. If you even agree to talk, but don't want to talk about the ball, that\u2019s OK. I won\u2019t cross any lines. I just think it\u2019s extremely important for me to actually speak to you. If anything, would you be open to fact-checking some of what I\u2019ve uncovered?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0I left her my cell number and email.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI really hope to hear from you. Lindsey.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I send it to an address she\u2019s associated with, hoping she\u2019ll receive it.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Music]\n<p>In trying to make sense of all these rabbit holes I reached out to a couple guys who also recently did a deep dive into the \u201cBetz Mystery Sphere,\u201d\u00a0 Scott Philbrook<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Scott Philbrook:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cOK, Lindsey, I\u2019m starting our record session here.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And Forrest Burgess\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Forrest Burgess:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cI have our show script notes punched up in case there\u2019s a question I have to search for.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>They host the podcast Astonishing Legends. I thought it would be helpful to sort of compare notes and talk through some of what I\u2019m stuck on.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>On their podcast, they basically look into stuff they\u2019re interested in: The paranormal, weird science, odd historical stories.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Hosts:]<\/strong><br \/> \u201cI guess we consider everything every possibility going in, but try not to settle on one before going in and discounting the others would you see, a lot of times, especially with people who study this kind of thing\u2026\u201d \u201cYeah, we don't rule it out. But conversely, with people who are open to wilder explanations, we also don't rule out mundane explanations. And sometimes we do an investigation and at the end of it, it seems like maybe it was much more mundane than the legends and the lore around it would have you believe. Other times, we do an investigation, and at the end of it, it seems like it\u2019s the craziest thing you\u2019ve ever heard in your life.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>Like the Betz sphere. They have this interview with an anonymous woman who they say is a member of the Betz family, although not Gerri. And the source even says she was there when her family member found the ball.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Hosts:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cHaving a first-hand account, that's something a lot of times we don't get a chance at getting, because we're often talking about things that are hundreds of years old, and everybody's dead. So it\u2019s nice to talk to somebody who was there.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She backs up a lot of what we\u2019ve heard before, plus that the Betz family knows where the ball is, but, no one in the family has it at their house because they\u2019ve entrusted a third party with it for safekeeping.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>She tells the story of Terry, the guy who found the ball, being flown home and separated from the ball. She says the ball actually rolled up hill in front of a crowd and all the footage was confiscated.<\/p>\n<p>She even says Dr. Hynek told the family, if the ball was flown it would have to be kept in a special cage so it wouldn\u2019t interfere with the plane. Nan told me this too.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>She talked about those dead trees in the area where the ball was found, saying the tops were twisted and broken, but most likely from a storm. She says people who worked at the paper mill, told her family they\u2019d never seen balls like the Betzes\u2019.<\/p>\n<p>But there are a few things she says that are different: That the ball stopped rolling around and acting weird after it came back from the UFO conference, which would have been before Hynek allegedly came to the Betz house to examine the ball. When he came to the house, she says Gerri didn\u2019t give him permission to take the ball in his room, but rather she got up and caught him with it, doing tests.<\/p>\n<p>This person says the outside of the ball had very specific markings and those are this still on it, so this ball they have may not have been switched, but instead tampered with or cut open. And again, the new x-rays didn\u2019t match.\u00a0 Gerri thought Hynek had something to do with all that. Although I have him on tape saying the ball was pretty ordinary.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong> [On old radio show]\u201cIt seems like a perfectly normal metal sphere.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This source says after he spent time with the ball he told the family it was amazing and did think it may have been extraterrestrial. She said he took shavings from the ball, and the atomic number didn\u2019t make sense. She said he had his sights set on the ball.<\/p>\n<p>I ran this by Jerry Clark- the UFO expert who said, Hynek just wasn\u2019t that strategic. And Hynek\u2019s son Paul.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYour dad never publicly said it was, you know, extraterrestrial. I think he was quoted, and I think this was when he was part of the blue ribbon panel, that none will go so far as to say it's extraterrestrial, they would be putting their scientific reputations on the line. However, the family, who found the ball, said to them, you know, in private, he very much did believe it was something more than that. Do you know if...does that sound like him? Is that possible?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Paul Hynek:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cIt's certainly possible. I think what I heard my father say was always, you know, it's hard for someone to speak in definite terms. \u2018This is extraterrestrial,\u2019 for example. I think you'd be more inclined to say, \u2018This is quite mysterious,\u2019 or \u2018I have, I've had a metallurgical analysis done of this, and we can't place it's origin,\u2019 things like that. So I don't know what he said, but I can imagine that he would be a little bit looser in his verbiage with the people that are reported it then in public. Sure.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>This anonymous family member said the family knew scientists Hynek and Harder very well, formed friendships with them.<\/p>\n<p>She says maybe the ball was something dangerous from the military that was deactivated\u2026but the family just wanted to know what it was, and still does.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cDid you try to get your hands on the sphere? And did you find it weird, if you did, that you weren't able to? Or that they don't really want to tell anyone where it is? I mean, that would kind of solve it, right? If we could get it and then, have someone examine it today?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Astonishing Legends hosts:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYeah, it may not be, as we said earlier, the same sphere. So it doesn't, I don't know that it would solve any mysteries because, and I don't think they necessarily are either at this point, because it could have been swapped in New Orleans. It could have even been swapped in the initial x-ray when it went to the Navy, although the family members were relatively convinced that if it was nearly identical, it had all the same abrasions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>The source said, things just got really crazy. With people showing up and wanting to buy the ball. Nan had told me people were camping on the Betz\u2019 property. This source said Gerri found out her phones had been tapped.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>So is figuring out what the ball is now, really worth it?<\/p>\n<p>The <em>Astonishing Legends<\/em> hosts both said they don\u2019t know what the ball is although they have theories. Like maybe it was in development for some sort of military use and the project was never fully realized. Or maybe it was intended as part of a larger machine. Like why would its only function to be rolling around weirdly? Maybe it had a purpose when attached to other machinery? You just can\u2019t say for sure because we don\u2019t have enough information about what was inside it. But they don\u2019t believe it was from the paper mill.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know if I can accept that theory either. It\u2019s still so weird to me that the ball was never, or least not publicly) side-by-side compared to a ball from the paper mill or with the sculptor\u2019s metal spheres. So I can\u2019t jump to those conclusions and as a reporter, I don\u2019t want to just speculate. So what do I do with this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Scott Philbrook:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cEverybody wants to be able to wrap up in a package, this assessment of the players and what they're saying and how it relates to the story. And you just don't always get to do that. Because it's sometimes it's just so complicated and so great. And there's so many overlapping gray areas, that all you can do is just look at all the information. And then, as Forrest likes to say sometimes, live with the question.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>They brought something up that I think is really the key in all this. Do you believe the ball acted as the family says it does? Having some sense of self-awareness. Knowing where the edge of the table was? Because if you do, how could it be some ball from the paper mill? Forrest and Scott really believe the family.<\/p>\n<p>I think It\u2019s sort of like when someone says they\u2019ve seen a ghost. If the person is on TV, it\u2019s easy to say, yeah, sure you did. But when it\u2019s your dad or best friend confiding in you, why would they make that up? That\u2019s the vibe I get from those who know Gerri. Yeah, the story is weird, but it happened, because Gerri said it did and she\u2019s not a liar.<\/p>\n<p>Throughout this whole process, I\u2019ve reached out to Gerri and a few other family members multiple times and have mostly been met with silence, and I\u2019ve lost a lot of sleep\u2026<\/p>\n<p>But while I\u2019m at work one day I realize I have a missed call and voicemail.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Gerri Betz:] <\/strong><br \/>\u201cHello, Lindsey. This is Gerri Betz Jackson. I got your letter and I\u2019m calling you back. I\u2019m in the middle of...\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She tells me she\u2019s dealing with something important, but I\u2019m not going to give away anything personal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Gerri Betz:] <\/strong><br \/>\u201cBut some time when I get a chance, it might be next year, I\u2019ll get back with you. Thank you thinking about me. God Bless you, bye bye.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>I played it for my editor, Jessica.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jessica Palombo:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cOh, wow.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYeah, so that\u2019s\u2026\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jessica Palombo:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cSo that\u2019s good and bad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cI mean, I\u2019m happy to hear from her and that she doesn\u2019t sound mad at me.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jessica Palombo:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cNo, she sounded very lovely.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cBut I\u2019m disappointed, obviously, because this is launching before next year.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jessica Palombo:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cRight.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cBut yeah, so, I called her back, and then she just said, call me next year and we\u2019ll talk about it.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jessica Palombo:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cUgh. Well, that just makes you want to say we\u2019ll have a special episode coming next year, right?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cI mean, she\u2019s so sweet that I don\u2019t know if she just won\u2019t say no, and she\u2019s not going to do it. I mean, that\u2019s my gut.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Jessica Palombo:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYou don\u2019t know for sure.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Lindsey Kilbride:]<\/strong><br \/>\u201cYeah.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>So this is the end of <em>Odd Ball<\/em>... for now. When Gerri feels ready to talk, you can be sure a new episode will show up in your feed. For now, I\u2019m living with the question.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><br \/><br \/><\/p>\n<p>This is <em>Odd Ball<\/em>, a production made by supporters of WJCT Public Media, with additional support from Bold Bean Coffee Roasters. If you think projects like this one are worth doing, send a message to my bosses by making a small donation at oddballpodcast.com. That\u2019s also where you can order your own bag of Odd Ball coffee from Bold Bean, or maybe a mug or tote bag. And stay subscribed, because when Gerri wants to talk, we\u2019ll upload a new episode.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Odd Ball was produced by me, Lindsey Kilbride, with editing by Jessica Palombo. The music is by Matthew Wardell and by the show\u2019s intern, Al Pete.<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><hr class=\"x-line e212872-e17 m4k94-d m4k94-f\"><\/hr><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-container max width e212872-e18 m4k94-1\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-1 e212872-e19 m4k94-3 m4k94-4\"><div class=\"x-text x-text-headline e212872-e20 m4k94-6\"><div class=\"x-text-content\"><div class=\"x-text-content-text\"><h2 class=\"x-text-content-text-primary\"><a id=\"episode5\"><\/a>Episode 5:<\/h2><h4 class=\"x-text-content-text-subheadline\">Extras<\/h4><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-content-area e212872-e21 m4k94-c\"><div class='white' style='background:rgba(0,0,0,0); border:solid 0px rgba(0,0,0,0); border-radius:0px; padding:0px 0px 0px 0px;'>\n<div id='oddball_episode5_extras' class='owl-carousel sa_owl_theme owl-pagination-true' data-slider-id='oddball_episode5_extras' style='visibility:hidden;'>\n<div id='oddball_episode5_extras_slide01' class='sa_hover_container' style='padding:5% 0%; margin:0px 5%; background-image:url(&quot;https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-1-336x1200.jpg&quot;); background-position:center center; background-size:cover; background-repeat:no-repeat; '><div class='sa_hover_buttons' style='top:50%; left:50%; margin-top:-20px; margin-left:-20px;'><div class='sa_popup_zoom_icon' onClick='open_lightbox_gallery_oddball_episode5_extras(1);'><\/div><\/div>\n<span class=\"slidercaption\">Gerri Betz is quoted, \"Who could say what's on another planet; even speculations have been proven wrong.\"<\/span><\/div>\n<div id='oddball_episode5_extras_slide02' class='sa_hover_container' style='padding:5% 0%; margin:0px 5%; background-image:url(&quot;https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-2-300x244.jpg&quot;); background-position:center center; background-size:cover; background-repeat:no-repeat; '><div class='sa_hover_buttons' style='top:50%; left:50%; margin-top:-20px; margin-left:-40px;'><a class='sa_slide_link_icon' href='https:\/\/www.dailyherald.com\/entlife\/20190107\/evanston-native-advises-tv-show-project-blue-book-on-his-ufo-expert-dad' target='_blank' title='' aria-label=''><\/a><div class='sa_popup_zoom_icon' onClick='open_lightbox_gallery_oddball_episode5_extras(2);'><\/div><\/div>\n<span class=\"slidercaption\">Paul Hynek says growing up his family had a metal ball from a Florida UFO case. <\/span><\/div>\n<div id='oddball_episode5_extras_slide03' class='sa_hover_container' style='padding:5% 0%; margin:0px 5%; background-image:url(&quot;https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-3-e1570482209776-225x300.jpg&quot;); background-position:center center; background-size:cover; background-repeat:no-repeat; '><div class='sa_hover_buttons' style='top:50%; left:50%; margin-top:-20px; margin-left:-20px;'><div class='sa_popup_zoom_icon' onClick='open_lightbox_gallery_oddball_episode5_extras(3);'><\/div><\/div>\n<span class=\"slidercaption\">Gerri Betz says she can't prove she has the original ball her son found.<\/span><\/div>\n<div id='oddball_episode5_extras_slide04' class='sa_hover_container' style='padding:5% 0%; margin:0px 5%; background-image:url(&quot;https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-4-300x300.jpg&quot;); background-position:center center; background-size:cover; background-repeat:no-repeat; '><div class='sa_hover_buttons' style='top:50%; left:50%; margin-top:-20px; margin-left:-40px;'><a class='sa_slide_link_icon' href='https:\/\/www.astonishinglegends.com\/al-podcasts\/2019\/01\/20\/ep-131-the-betz-sphere-part-2' target='_blank' title='' aria-label=''><\/a><div class='sa_popup_zoom_icon' onClick='open_lightbox_gallery_oddball_episode5_extras(4);'><\/div><\/div>\n<span class=\"slidercaption\">The Astonishing Legends podcast interviewed an anonymous woman who they say it a Betz family member.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id='lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras' style='display:none !important;'>\n<div class='lg_item' id='lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras_2' href='https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-1.jpg' data-sub-html='Gerri Betz is quoted, \"Who could say what's on another planet; even speculations have been proven wrong.\" - The Palm Beach Post'>slide2<\/div>\n<div class='lg_item' id='lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras_3' href='https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-2.jpg' data-sub-html='Paul Hynek says growing up his family had a metal ball from a Florida UFO case.'>slide3<\/div>\n<div class='lg_item' id='lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras_4' href='https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-3-e1570482209776.jpg' data-sub-html='Gerri Betz says she can't prove she has the original ball her son found.'>slide4<\/div>\n<div class='lg_item' id='lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras_5' href='https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/E5-4.jpg' data-sub-html='The Astonishing Legends podcast interviewed an anonymous woman who they say it a Betz family member.'>slide5<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<script type='text\/javascript'>\n\tjQuery(document).ready(function() {\n\t\tjQuery('#oddball_episode5_extras').owlCarousel({\n\t\t\tresponsive:{\n\t\t\t\t0:{ items:1 },\n\t\t\t\t480:{ items:1 },\n\t\t\t\t768:{ items:1 },\n\t\t\t\t980:{ items:2 },\n\t\t\t\t1200:{ items:3 },\n\t\t\t\t1500:{ items:3 }\n\t\t\t},\n\t\t\tautoplay : true,\n\t\t\tautoplayTimeout : 5000,\n\t\t\tautoplayHoverPause : true,\n\t\t\tsmartSpeed : 200,\n\t\t\tfluidSpeed : 200,\n\t\t\tautoplaySpeed : 200,\n\t\t\tnavSpeed : 200,\n\t\t\tdotsSpeed : 200,\n\t\t\tdotsEach : 1,\n\t\t\tloop : true,\n\t\t\tnav : true,\n\t\t\tnavText : ['Previous','Next'],\n\t\t\tdots : true,\n\t\t\tresponsiveRefreshRate : 200,\n\t\t\tslideBy : 1,\n\t\t\tmergeFit : true,\n\t\t\tautoHeight : true,\n\t\t\tlazyLoad : true,\n\t\t\tlazyLoadEager: 1,\n\t\t\tmouseDrag : false,\n\t\t\ttouchDrag : true\n\t\t});\n\t\tjQuery('#oddball_episode5_extras').css('visibility', 'visible');\n\t\tsa_resize_oddball_episode5_extras();\n\t\twindow.addEventListener('resize', sa_resize_oddball_episode5_extras);\n\t\tfunction sa_resize_oddball_episode5_extras() {\n\t\t\tvar min_height = '80';\n\t\t\tvar win_width = jQuery(window).width();\n\t\t\tvar slider_width = jQuery('#oddball_episode5_extras').width();\n\t\t\tif (win_width < 480) {\n\t\t\t\tvar slide_width = slider_width \/ 1;\n\t\t\t} else if (win_width < 768) {\n\t\t\t\tvar slide_width = slider_width \/ 1;\n\t\t\t} else if (win_width < 980) {\n\t\t\t\tvar slide_width = slider_width \/ 1;\n\t\t\t} else if (win_width < 1200) {\n\t\t\t\tvar slide_width = slider_width \/ 2;\n\t\t\t} else if (win_width < 1500) {\n\t\t\t\tvar slide_width = slider_width \/ 3;\n\t\t\t} else {\n\t\t\t\tvar slide_width = slider_width \/ 3;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\tslide_width = Math.round(slide_width);\n\t\t\tvar slide_height = '0';\n\t\t\tif (min_height == 'aspect43') {\n\t\t\t\tslide_height = (slide_width \/ 4) * 3;\t\t\t\tslide_height = Math.round(slide_height);\n\t\t\t} else if (min_height == 'aspect169') {\n\t\t\t\tslide_height = (slide_width \/ 16) * 9;\t\t\t\tslide_height = Math.round(slide_height);\n\t\t\t} else {\n\t\t\t\tslide_height = (slide_width \/ 100) * min_height;\t\t\t\tslide_height = Math.round(slide_height);\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\tjQuery('#oddball_episode5_extras .owl-item .sa_hover_container').css('min-height', slide_height+'px');\n\t\t}\n\t\tvar owl_goto = jQuery('#oddball_episode5_extras');\n\t\tjQuery('.oddball_episode5_extras_goto1').click(function(event){\n\t\t\towl_goto.trigger('to.owl.carousel', 0);\n\t\t});\n\t\tjQuery('.oddball_episode5_extras_goto2').click(function(event){\n\t\t\towl_goto.trigger('to.owl.carousel', 1);\n\t\t});\n\t\tjQuery('.oddball_episode5_extras_goto3').click(function(event){\n\t\t\towl_goto.trigger('to.owl.carousel', 2);\n\t\t});\n\t\tjQuery('.oddball_episode5_extras_goto4').click(function(event){\n\t\t\towl_goto.trigger('to.owl.carousel', 3);\n\t\t});\n\t\tvar resize_212837 = jQuery('.owl-carousel');\n\t\tresize_212837.on('initialized.owl.carousel', function(e) {\n\t\t\tif (typeof(Event) === 'function') {\n\t\t\t\twindow.dispatchEvent(new Event('resize'));\n\t\t\t} else {\n\t\t\t\tvar evt = window.document.createEvent('UIEvents');\n\t\t\t\tevt.initUIEvent('resize', true, false, window, 0);\n\t\t\t\twindow.dispatchEvent(evt);\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t});\n\t});\n<\/script>\n<script type='text\/javascript'>\njQuery(document).ready(function() {\nlightGallery(document.getElementById('lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras'), {\n\tplugins: [lgVideo, lgZoom, lgAutoplay],\n\tautoplayFirstVideo: true,\n\tselector: '.lg_item',\n\tlicenseKey: '60F5F1E7-E8034357-B387117F-3E9CE6DA'\n});\n});\nfunction open_lightbox_gallery_oddball_episode5_extras(slide) {\n\tslide_num = slide + 1;\n\tvar popup_cssid = 'lightgallery_oddball_episode5_extras' + '_' + slide_num;\n\tdocument.getElementById(popup_cssid).click();\n}\n<\/script>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"x-section e211018-e9 m4itm-0\"><div class=\"x-container marginless-columns e211018-e10 m4itm-1\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-1 e211018-e11 m4itm-3\"><div class=\"cs-content x-global-block x-global-block-211067 e211018-e12\"><div class=\"x-section e211067-e1 m4iuz-0\"><div class=\"x-container e211067-e2 m4iuz-1\"><div class=\"x-column x-sm x-1-1 e211067-e3 m4iuz-2\"><div class=\"x-content-area e211067-e4 m4iuz-3\"><footer id=\"oddballfooter\">\n<div id=\"UnderwriterCreditFooter\"> Sponsored in part by<a href=\"https:\/\/boldbeancoffee.com\/\"><br\/>\n<img decoding=\"async\" id=\"UnderwriterLogo\" src=\"https:\/\/www.wjct.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/BoldBeanCoffeeRoasters.svg\"\/><\/a>\n<div id=\"currentyear\">&copy; WJCT Public Media\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/footer><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sponsored in part by How&nbsp;to&nbsp;Listen Donate Contact Home Episodes About Extras Support Home Episodes About Extras Shop How To Listen Contact Episode 5:Steal SteelLindsey looks into where the sphere really is. And will she ever get to talk to Gerri? &nbsp; Subscribe Download Transcript Share &#x25b8;Transcript: Click to expandNote:\u00a0Odd Ball\u00a0is produced and designed to be heard, not read. We highly &#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":636,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"template-blank-6.php","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1612,1610],"tags":[],"hashtags":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Episode 5 - Steal Steel - Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Episode 5 - Steal Steel - Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Sponsored in part by How&nbsp;to&nbsp;Listen Donate Contact Home Episodes About Extras Support Home Episodes About Extras Shop How To Listen Contact Episode 5:Steal SteelLindsey looks into where the sphere really is. And will she ever get to talk to Gerri? &nbsp; Subscribe Download Transcript Share &#x25b8;Transcript: Click to expandNote:\u00a0Odd Ball\u00a0is produced and designed to be heard, not read. We highly ...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/WJCTPublicBroadcasting\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-12-23T22:13:04+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/wjct_public_media_logo_rectangle-e1622249348981.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1000\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"522\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@wjctjax\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/\",\"name\":\"Episode 5 - Steal Steel - Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2019-11-04T05:00:56+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-12-23T22:13:04+00:00\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Episode 5 &#8211; Steal Steel\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/\",\"name\":\"Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Episode 5 - Steal Steel - Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Episode 5 - Steal Steel - Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media","og_description":"Sponsored in part by How&nbsp;to&nbsp;Listen Donate Contact Home Episodes About Extras Support Home Episodes About Extras Shop How To Listen Contact Episode 5:Steal SteelLindsey looks into where the sphere really is. And will she ever get to talk to Gerri? &nbsp; Subscribe Download Transcript Share &#x25b8;Transcript: Click to expandNote:\u00a0Odd Ball\u00a0is produced and designed to be heard, not read. We highly ...","og_url":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/","og_site_name":"Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media","article_publisher":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/WJCTPublicBroadcasting","article_modified_time":"2023-12-23T22:13:04+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1000,"height":522,"url":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/wjct_public_media_logo_rectangle-e1622249348981.png","type":"image\/png"}],"twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_site":"@wjctjax","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/","url":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/","name":"Episode 5 - Steal Steel - Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/#website"},"datePublished":"2019-11-04T05:00:56+00:00","dateModified":"2023-12-23T22:13:04+00:00","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/episode-5-steal-steel\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Episode 5 &#8211; Steal Steel"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/#website","url":"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/","name":"Odd Ball Podcast - WJCT Public Media","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/oddball-wjct.pantheonsite.io\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"}]}},"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/211018"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/636"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=211018"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/211018\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=211018"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=211018"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=211018"},{"taxonomy":"hashtags","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wjct.lndo.site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/hashtags?post=211018"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}